Comprehensive Account of JYJ vs. SM
March 15, 2011 Court Hearing
*Please click on image to enlarge
Compilation and explanations by: Inklette@DNBN
Sources: 1, 2, 3, @withJYJ and @inhye87 of withJYJ, DC TVXQ Gallery, esc님
Shared by: TheJYJFiles
The JYJ Files 
Those hotels sure love omitting stuff! They didn’t even try to be discreet about it either, look at the HUGE chunk of the account was missing lol!
Well i’ll be they never learn. Oh immature tweens 😉
Thank you. I was waiting for this.
Holy Cats! What a nightmare to unravel all of this. Thanks Jimmie, for providing us US
i-fans with this account, flawed though it may be, in English. It’s been really really hard to get information, I’ve searched in vain for several years for someone to translate various and sundry, so imagine my joy at finding YOU.
🙂
Dear,
It wasn’t me…or at least, it wasn’t all me. I only translated a portion of this account. The vast majority fell into the very capable hands of Inklette and Withjyj. You should be thanking them ^^
Cheers!
Thanks for the transcript. Although it didn’t do much more than confirm that the accounting system is very sketchy.
Something I’m still shaking my head over is why they would need an “advance” to pay taxes. If they aren’t getting any money, why would they need to pay tax on it? I’ve been taking care of my own wages since I was getting babysitting money at 13. I like to know where every penny is going. This whole system makes me queezy.
“Although it didn’t do much more than confirm that the accounting system is very sketchy. ”
Sketchy is putting it mildy, you are being so kind. As I mentioned on JYJ3 – SME’s actions are ammoral, and its character is immoral. Judgment day is their worst nightmare.
Can’t wait for that day 🙂
That, SME’s Judgment Day, will surely come.
>sigh<
Oh gosh, i forgot. Thank you JYJFile for putting this up. You have done wonders to us by making us educated and well informed 🙂
I am always curious, if not, completely compelled to think people are still buying what the Hotels are saying. It’s like it’s so hard for them to see the line that should be crossed but refused to believe it exists. For the most part, thank you JYJfiles, Inklette and everyone who handed in their accounts on this hearing. I-fans are always at a disadvantage and for some people, they are very vulnerable and naive. And how curious it was that the only news I heard about this hearing was from one source that completely omitted so many pertinent information, especially based off of this account.
Before, ages ago, I was at a stage where I was treading the line between supporting the 5 or just supporting the 3. I remembered how much I denied the concept of JYJ having bad relationship with their other members. I remembered how I used to believe aktf means jyj will go back to being dbsk again. But man, did that just blow out of the water. JYJ is a force to be reckon with and I, without a doubt, put so much trust and pride into the trio and be so passionate about them than I have done in my entire life. end of story.
🙂 Thats how powerful correct information is. It makes you decide what is right and what is wrong, using the most precious thing that God gives us, ie brain. 🙂
Im glad you are already out of the dark hun… Too many people are still in there, hidden in the shadows of their sad faith with OT5 and I hope some more of them will be woken up by this somehow.
At the end of the day, and when JYJ has won this, hopefully the other two will have it in themselves to ask for forgiveness from the three and also their loyal Cassies…
Thank you JYJfiles. Pray for JYJ ^^
The reality is, most people don’t bother to find out more and are okay with what is presented to the even if it’s just the surface and doesn’t really summarize the essence of something. The biased and abridged version of the court preceding somehow reminded me of a tabloid that usually miss out the important facts just to create a controversy.
That’s why I’m really glad there is an effort to give more light to the court account. And, in this light, I hope that this hearing would be judged fairly and I hope people become more aware of what JYJ had to face while in SM.
reading…
and yeah… as i said on jyj3, i was expecting some magical thing that happened on the last hearing but the info revealed on this “unabridged” version made me go WOAH~, like WOOOOAHHHH~!!! not only because of the stealing from your little employers what little money entitled to them, but also the fact that Hotels are still on the go with the BS they had been spreading all over… God… Don’t they get it? People think and we have brains! And they are not the only sole source of info in the world so we will not just nod nod like toy dogs on the dashboard to whatever lies they supply us.
Damn… I wanna go on and on but I’ll just say that JYJ will win this, and when that time comes, the people who have done so much harm to JYJ’s person will eat the sh*t that they’ve spewed.
precious whatsoever….. they just make fun of themself by doing that.
just can’t wait untill JYJ win the lawsuits and wonder what they will say ?
Thanks to JYJ files, keep fighting and praying.
they’re already talking abt that and they’re being the “nice guys” saying that they’ll be happy should that time comes when JYJ will no longer be associated with HM, and the two can finally go on without the three… as if they’ll be quiet after JYJ has won… *scoffs*
I read this over and over again and I still can’t figure out what the financial relationship between SM and TVXQ was. I guess I need to read the contract.
Isn’t it normal for someone to pay for their own medicine? Was the cost of Junsu’s cold medicine being split by the 5 members?
Is the expense report even legit? If SM is as shady as I think it is it could be cooking the numbers. Did they show all the expenses in court or just the part that SM was willing to show?
On the overseas revenue bit, are they allowed to make a statement like this in court without some kind of verification?
All the Hotel stuff claim that SM is being audited by a seperate agency so it is impossible for it to make false financial statements but how much checking does a auditing agency actually do? Enron comes to mind…
It sounds like SME really was acting as their parent. Taking all their earnings, taking their “expenses” out of it, then giving them what was left when they felt like it. Junsu’s cold medicine was part of their living expenses, which SME also controlled. So the boys had to pay taxes on money they never saw, and paid for expenses they never approved.
A company should NEVER be allowed to behave in that manner. If the money was to be in trust, since the performers are often underage, the trustee has to be separate from the person giving the money.
Yeah, their auditors had better hope they aren’t called as witnesses. I know that every country has a different system, but this is actually acceptable, I’m not sure I would want to put my money near Korean business.
@eliza
oh my dear, your last statemnt… ahhh… you speak the truth… (thinks about the Korean businesses set up all over in the Philippines…)
SME actually is the mother or should I say father(?) of the shadiness of business practices that they do over here in my country too, some of which my sister had the misfortune of experiencing…
And she has given me so much information on the way Koreans think/behave that I can only sometimes think to myself, “how very Korean” when I learn abt more of SME’s malpractices. (Of course every race has the good & bad ones, so I’m just referring to the bad ones… ^^)
@Sam-sam did your teacher work in a Korean-owned English school? I once taught English to Koreans for a similar company based in Pasig and the owners were really very kind and generous people. They gave what the employees deserved and did not cut costs on the legal stuff. Anyway, what I am trying to say is that some of them are on the other side of the spectrum. But yeah, I agree with yah, there are good ones and there are bad ones as well 🙂
sorry I meant “Did your *sister” Sheesh, I haven’t had coffee yet hehehe
@Jan
Uy! Pinay!!! I barely see our “kind” here… LOL
Yeah, hehe~, my sister still works in Pasig but for a different company -Spicus, if i remember correctly. She had some you know problems with her previous employer, the comapany closed and they weren’t compensated, and I believe that previous company idolized SME’s accounting and tax paying behaviors, if you know what I mean…
@Sam-sam: Aww too bad for your sister 😦 cause not all of these people naman are bad. In our case, it was even our Pinay accountant who gutted the Korean owners, nakakahiya but that’s the way it rolls.
Anyway, nice “meeting” you here. @Eliza: sorry for invading your space here 🙂
@sam2 & Jan
I see some kababayans here! lol 🙂
nice seeing you here guys!
Hey sam-sam (very cute name change btw. 😉 ) Hi Jan
I wasn’t talking about business owned by a Korean person. I’m talking about business that are set up under Korean business law. SME is a publicly traded company. Where I come from that would require standard accounting practices and external audits to confirm them. If SME has been getting away with this kind of behaviour, with the sanction of public auditors, I wouldn’t trust the Korean financial and business system.
I really hope someone with more authority than the civil courts is taking a hard look at this, and is working to act on it, because it does not look good to the international community.
@ Eliza, yup that’s true and the more shadiness exposed, the more embarrassing it becomes
@Sam-sam and Masiling, we should totally have a live JYJ spazz session soon hahaha!
I hope Korea’s National Tax Service will audit SM.
the money goes to the shareholders and investors while they suck their artists dry. /:)
I get the feeling that JYJ was being majorally screwed by SM but it may be impossible to prove it. Unless a criminal investigation happens.
@Jan & masiling
we can try talking more in the vernacular in JYJ Philippines@wordpress… yeah, meron nun! ^^
@eliza
yes, dear i get what you mean, we just digressed… ^^
@sam2
thanks for the site. I visited it and it looks cool!
As doublejaedee said, in the past I also used to think someday the five would be reunited again. But nowadays, having knowledge about JYJ’s sad misfortunes and SME’s evilness and low cheap tricks, finally my feet are on the ground. JYJ deserves justice; JYJ deserves to be free from SME’s slavery. They’re fighting for their rights, their freedom and for the truth. SME deserves shame and punishment. SME is fighting for greed and power because they think they’re and they must be almighty forever. ¿Who’s fighting is more authentic; more honest; more human? The answer is obvious to me and almost to every girl who visit this blog day by day: ¡JYJ’s! ¡Nobody questions that here! We all love and support JYJ with no conditions because we know they have pure, honest and sweet hearts. And we are loyal fans. ¡JYJ fighting! ¡Truth fighting!
Thank you Ceci, Jimmie, all JYJ Files staff, and of course, Inklette@DNBN for keeping us well informed.
Thanks to “Inklette” for the full account and thanks to Jimmie for sharing with us i-fans. This confirms what we all know all along- the BS SMe has piled up is just totally unacceptable in this modern day and age. When I watch old videos and performances, I feel sad knowing that JYJ paid for all those flashy costumes and props
and that all the glamorous facade of their hallyu invasion are all smokes and mirrors.
Also, I am left to wonder if the other guys (and girls) remaining with SMe know about this (if they are allowed at all) and how they justify such appalling wrongdoings done to them in their hearts. So happy JYJ decided to leave. With each news article and staff account, we know see who are growing up into fine young men and who have remained as lost, little children left behind.
*now
I had to read this more than once. Some of the expenses the members had to pay as operating costs are unreasonable. If providing their artists with house and lodging need that much upkeep, wouldn’t it make more sense to just allow their artists to live on their own? That way, it wouldn’t cost the company so much and the artist can manage his household expenses better.
And is the Expense Report the only document shown by SME in court? Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that only a summary of expenses? Didn’t they present other evidence like receipts and other paper work that could show that the expenses were at least justified?
nope, and I’m also wondering which year it was… was it for 8-9 years expenses? that most likely a very long list.
@Aki
“Didn’t they present other evidence like receipts and other paper work that could show that the expenses were at least justified?”
I can’t help but LOL. You would think so right? My mind keeps recalling a statement they made about them lumping all the receipts for all their artists together. Therefore, it is impossible for them to separate whose receipts are whose.
Ok……. and I have some swamp land for you. There is some in Florida/Louisiana, but truly, there really is some in Arizona too, I swear. 😉
ahahahahah~!!! IKR?
In a married life setting, if SME is a husband and he’s the one managing the bills, the wife will just jump off a cliff when she finds out how messed up the accounting book is when she sees it…
Hey, I live in AZ…:-)
@masi, @ButterfliesAreFree, and @sam-sam
I’m no accountant and I’m not yet working, but isn’t it only natural to keep records of your expenses? Receipts, in particular, especially when taxes are being paid – for me, expense reports, no matter how comprehensive or long – wouldn’t be enough to prove that the expenses written there were justified. As I’ve said, my impression of the report is that it’s a summary – what it gives is a lump sum amount, a total of the expenses made but wouldn’t present the calculations behind the numbers. How the expenses were incurred, who exactly is supposed to be accountable for those expenses, and just how much for was made in a particular transaction, questions that would have been answered more convincingly if more documents had been shown in court. I’m sorry if I come off as petty focusing on the document/s that have been presented, but a witness who bases his facts on documents should be able to back them up with such documents. This particular witness couldn’t and it bothers me. Because generally, physical and documentary evidence is given more credence than testimonial evidence in court, so if I was the witness, I’d really back my statements up so that my words wouldn’t be doubted/refuted easily.
Your doubts, questions and suspicion are all justified and logical. Anyone ever questioned the change of company internal auditor? Could it be intentional? External audit may not be able to track “shady” revenues as they may be disguised under expenses. Attendance payouts of small activities were “not subjects of accounting calculations” and all revenue from these events went to the company. Ever wonder why DBSK was more active in Japan than in Korea besides the lure of bigger market share? Greed from double dipping- SME & SME Japan?
Since there were so many ‘I don’t knows’ and inconsistencies from the witness, let’s hope this disrespectful lofty behaviour from SME’s legal strategy will continue to dig deeper for its grave.
@Aki
that’s also my thinking, I’m no accountant, got little knowledge in accounting and business. Expense summary report is not as good as the actual receipts. And don’t forget expenses are divided into 2 (SM & TVXQ) so I’m really curious is what expenses should TVXQ be paying, what SM be shouldering and what is divided between the two. Without hard evidence – receipt – anyone can always pass off the expenses to the boys to pay. And I’m more curious who’s paying what? by that then we can *wishful thinking* dig in SM accounting storage for the receipts and calculate how much should the boys actually should pay. Until then it’s hard to formulate if the accounting is right or wrong – actually accounting is right with their calculations it’s more on categorizing the expenses. For all we know, SM may have dump almost all the company’s expenses to TVXQ gross income thereby lowering TVXQ profit in a very huge scale resulting to this controversy.
In SM and TVXQ situation expenses could be interchangeable, I mean who’ll be paying it. Like what my manager does, he buy us food, either he’ll pay it out from his pocket or get the funds out of the company, but it is in his discretion where to get the money. Just like TVXQ they feed their staff, but SM decide where to get the money to pay for the food, not TVXQ, from TVXQ or the company. That is why I’m saying I’m really really curious with the expenses payment line between TVXQ and SM.
And for the record, I couldn’t understand how SM accounting works if they couldn’t produce the report of TVXQ alone. In accounting having different groups within a company it is necessary to have different file for each group to differentiate their revenues and expenses and profits, and keep it separate. Then you consolidate everything in a report for the overall reporting. And no matter how long it takes, you don’t throw the receipt nor combine the receipt of expenses from other groups, coz you wouldn’t know such issue as this might occur. And for the sake of government tax audit, a company can’t destroy their record or receipts for a certain number of years, I don’t know in Korea, here in US when filing taxes we have to keep receipts for 5 years. After 5 years you’re safe not to be audited. 🙂
@Aki
In addition to my comment.
I mean 5 years to be safe from gov’t auditors is a personal tax. But as far as I know US company keep their receipts I just don’t know how long though.
@masi
With today’s technology, they can scan those puppies and keep them ‘FOREVER’. Anybody have questions? We have proof right here!
Just depends on what you want people to see. 🙂
@butterfly
exactly since I keep all my receipt scanned. that’s why I could not understand with SM being a big company could not produce the copies. If only the company have just presented & explained it properly where all those revenue went, we wouldn’t have this issue. And not overcharging the group of other unwanted expenses (expenses that the company should be paying).
On the second thought it is much more better this way, to be out of the company – Personally, I can’t see myself doing continuous charity work for my company, once or twice is ok, but repetitive charity work and on top of that the company receive payment from my charity work, that I definitely wouldn’t agree to I want a due payment for my hard work.
🙂 (I’m trying to make a wink here 🙂 )
😉
@masi
When it all comes down to the ‘bottom line’, the numbers need to add up. There is just something, a whole lot something, that is not being said. I don’t care who is doing your accounting, or how your accounting is being done, it you have this much trouble bringing simple records to court, after all this time…something is WRONG.
THIS.IS.NOT.ROCKET.SCIENCE.
But in the end, if SME is sweating bullets, who am I to complain? Hehe. It’s just that I find it amusing this ‘behemoth’ of an industry titan is floundering so badly.
Someone made the comment about why JYJ’s legal team wasn’t calling any witnesses of their own. With SME doing it’s best to screw up, would you monkey with success? Why muddy the waters when SME is making your case for you. Pretty clever of them if you ask me. Not that anybody is. Just saying. 😉
oh wow, who is this Yoon Sunghee person again? Head accountant at SM? He knew he was gonna testify in court about things under his control, but his answers for many questions were “I’m not sure”, “I don’t know”, “That needs to be rechecked”. WTF? I’m not sure about SM’s definition of accounting, but isn’t it that all the expenses and revenues have to be recorded accordingly no matter how big or small they are? While SM was “decent” enough to record bullshit like snack costs, its executives’ and staff’s gas and parking fees as TVXQ’s expenses, it conveniently skipped over the payouts for TVXQ’s “small and irregular activities”, and eventually that money went to the company. Who should work for free anyway if it’s not for charity? These activities despite “small and irregular” took up their time, efforts and were the cause of the super packed schedules leading to their exhaustion. Yet, they were not entitled to being paid? Just reading this has already proved to me how “fairly” JYJ were treated under that company. Look at celebrities here in the U.S, they earn millions of dollars, live in the luxury mansions and lead glamorous lives. TVXQ, “arguably Asia’s most profitable stars”, on the other hand, worked sweat and blood, and still struggled to pay off the endless list of expenses shoved to their faces by their “management company.” Now that JYJ are free from them, what do they have left? Definitely not the life and the money they should have made.
Tsk tsk, I so want to strangle someone right now, preferably who spreads false rumors and smears JYJ’s reputation. *roll eyes*
I wonder if they get paid
by monthly with an incentive for the number of sales.
or
by sales – expenses = profit x % = salary/5
but the question is how the expenses are distributed.
accounting is a very tricky world. a good accountant can always lower the profit in the record but in actuality it’s more than that. and could juggle expenses especially everything is almost interchangeable (except for the few) since it is more on how you classify the expenses where it should really go. Should it go to the managerial expense or the operational/production expense.
In situation like this there should be a specific line who’s paying what. Unfortunately, the company dump almost all expenses to their artist to lessen their expenses and get a bigger profit.
especially those non regular shows that the company used the members, received the payment and not give a single dime to their artists. Those are sure profits of the company, and charity work for the members 😦
Thanks jyjfiles for posting this.
Perhaps I’m impatient, but it seems to me there was a lack of direction and determination in the cross-exam by JYJ’s lawyer to extract more specific info from the witness.
And eventho he was laughed at, what’s more important is the witness blatantly lied about THSK’s takings from Japan and in any court, lying is perjury, but he got away with it.
I know the strategy of SM’s legal team is to drag this whole case out but it shouldn’t be the same for JYJ’s legal team.
I hope to see Wigmore’s quote come to reality in the next hearing.
6 or 7 years (if my memory serves me correctly) after it was discovered that SM was robbing the KOREAN STATE AND PEOPLE through tax evasion and stock market manipulation, it is now uncovered that it has also been engaging in internal money laundering. Why am I not surprised?
On top of that, the company once againi failed to materialise all relevant accounting records, deciding to bring only a select few of the books to court. This heavily suggests that the company cherry-picked the displayed records (if it is not in the process as we speak of falsifying the remaining records or destroying evidence). If THIS is the bright and sunny side of the company’s money-making practices (which still amounts to a crime and obvious corruption), how utterly disgusting must the full picture be? And what exactly is it trying to hide so desperately? One is left wondering if humanity and the moral assumptions of decent democratic societies will be able to handle it…until SM produces the records IT WAS ORDERED SEVERAL TIMES BY THE MOUTHPIECE OF THE KOREAN STATE TO DISCLOSE, the most horrifying and outlandish speculations on what they contain are ENTIRELY PLAUSIBLE (my own would have entire departments of the International Criminal Police in a jiffy).
Reading this gave me chills down my spine. It smacks of extreme corruption and unscrupulousness of the highest order. Barely human.
But the evil could not have been perpetrated and allowed to continue without willing partners in crime thru corruption and wads of money passed under the table.
Even the law is not incorruptible in many so-called democracies of the world.
I’ve always felt that this fight was so much wider and deeper than just about ‘slave contracts.’
Thanks for staying strong and keeping us on the path cause as I see it it’s going to be quite a long and protracted battle.
Isn’t there some kind of penalty for failing to provide material that the court ordered it to do? The summary reads like the SM witness could say whatever he wants without any kind of verification whatsoever. If this the way the Korean justice system works… TT
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THANK YOU ALL for sharing this info.
Thank you JYJ files, for sharing all the information……
Thanks for the hard work!
uh, if I might ask, the parts in green on the right side, are they what actually happened? If I might just point out something, I really want to know if the court said “Stop. Not accepted.” in response to SM’s refute about why they weren’t paying the members for the Mirotic album.
I have to really wonder how much deeper the rabbit hole goes. The longer this case drags on, the more the completely appalling and unscrupulous nature of SME’s “business” practices comes to light. I honestly can do nothing more than shake my head in sheer astonishment at the blatant level of corruption that has remained unchecked.
When Executive’s gas money, snacks & Junsu’s cold medicine (mentioned upthread)are being deducted from your pay as “expenses”, something is very wrong with the money. Just, damn! I got nothing else.
I read over @ Omona that Cube, JYP & SM are coming together to talk about the “protection” of trainees. Someone called it “the fox guarding the hen house” and it couldn’t be more apropos.
I have to wonder when enough is enough for the general Korean public and music fans. I would be so sick of having the entertainment I love hijacked by these mgt. companies w/no room for anyone or anything that isn’t idol based.
I read the little blurb about the meeting of all the entertainment CEO’s and what I took away from it is that the trainees miss 80% of their classes, don’t inform the school of extended time off, and have restricted diets (when they are right in the middle of an important growth phase!). But it’s okay, because the trainees say it’s worth it and they don’t mind.
…
*facepalm*
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that what the PR event for that commission was supposed to be talking about? I don’t recall the name of it, but they were so concerned about the ‘younger artists’ and whay they are going through. Hmmmm.
All I can say is that it was held inside the SM Building. Shady much?
I’m mostly a lurker, and I know I’m gonna get heat but I need to ask anyway. Why do you guys always feel the need to summarize and explain? Srsly, no need to summarize, every bit is important and should be read. Also, no need to explain parts of the translation in the green text as if we were retarded, the translation should be enough. Are you trying to guide us towards a certain belief? I hope not.
And for the love of God, just to be clear, I’m not bashing anyone. I read both this blog and trutvxq, it’s only fair, and it jumped at me how different approaches both sites have to… everything. Couldn’t you just find a more complete court transcript and translate that?
BUT before I get piled on and bashed on and called the derogatory hotel girl name (common guys, are you 12?)… https://thejyjfiles.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/calling-all-jyj-fans-be-the-better-fandom/
Please be gentle! I hate no one.
~J
So, you are mostly a lurker. Ok. Lurk to your little heart’s content.
But in case it has escaped your attention, the purpose of a comment section in a blog is for a ‘conversation’ to take place. That is why this discussion is taking place. Whether the post contains a summarization or not, it is the poster’s perogative to post whatever he/she wants to. I for one don’t give a rat’s patootie what you think of this blog as opposed to the ‘other’ one. Those of us who like it, like it the way it is. The admins don’t have to change a darn thing to please anyone but themselves.
Not too many people who frequent this site have a problem with the content. Those who do, well, you just seem like you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time. You’re welcome to come here, but one word of advice – try not to insult our intelligence by asking if we’re 12 year olds. That is pretty bad form. That COULD get you bashed, just for bashing’s sake.
And please, the reference to ‘the better fandom’. We know who we are, we are not confused at all, and proud to be who we are.
Ok.
There are many people who won’t read anything over 140 characters. The phrase “to long; didn’t read” is more of a badge of honour than something to be embarrassed about. (Yes, I’m old. And don’t know what’s wrong with kids these days. 😉 )
Also, there is the fact that many of the readers of this blog have English as a second (3rd. 4th?!) language and really do have a difficult time dealing with long, technical articles.
Commentary on articles, particularly technical articles is very common. And religious writing. Historical documents. Translated works…. Do I need to go on? If you read enough at a certain level, you’ll actually grow to appreciate the way this one is set up because footnotes and endnotes are a bitch.
You are so much nicer and kinder than I am. I salute you. 😉 But your comment is more informative than mine.
Thank you for not being an ass. Actually, you are one of the most intelligent and emotionally stable jyj fans I’ve encountered around <3. /stalker out
About the points you raised, I concur, I loathe the tl;dr card, yet I don't believe the english-is-not-my-mothertongue excuse should be used. English is not my first language either, but I do make and effort. This whole summary for your convenience thingy feels forced. Discussion should be in the comment section, the article itself should be more objective.
I may have come aggresive in my comment, but there's just so many things that rub me the wrong way about the way some jyj fans go on defending jyj… Just wish the defense of jyj were a bit smarter, and supporting them didn't have to mean hating on DBSK, and calling their fans with ugly names.
I'm an OT5er myself, and I'm just facepalming all over the place, when did jyj vs sm became jyj vs everybody else? I read everything I can get my hands on trying to form an opinion and really, I've the common sense to understand that what both "sides" are presenting is not the complete truth, the truth probably falls somewhere in the middle. But whatever, I'll go on search of a true OT5 forum and be at peace.
Thank you for your time.
@mmmm
the writer or the compiler need not please everyone. It’s up to the reader to understand the article. And it’s up to the reader to read the summary or not.
I don’t hate DBSK, it’s the action of the two that warrants such negative criticism. The motto of the JYJ fans is to spread the love. But we don’t tolerate negative interviews that maligns JYJ’s character either.
“when did jyj vs sm became jyj vs everybody else” correction only those who attacks JYJ are the only ppl we’re standing up to.
“But whatever, I’ll go on search of a true OT5 forum and be at peace” LOL if you can’t handle such debate, why bother coming over here? tsk. tsk. tsk. tsk. another kid in the block – a lost soul. 😦
@masi
Thanks for proving my point about some jyj fans nont being nice people at all.
@mmmm
I just don’t know what your definition of being nice is. Coming over here looking for an OT5 forum is definitely not the right place.
kindly read the site it is THEJYJFILES
@masi
You’re still not being nice, did you actually called me a lost soul? a-okay!
And I know this is a site for jyj, but it doesn’t mean it has to be anti-dbsk does it? Some articles here just make me want to plant my face in my desk.
There’s a thing called Confirmation bias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias and Illusory Correlation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_correlation I think the fandom is falling deep into this rut. I think it would actually benefit fandom if it stopped seeing the otherside as this ~terrible enemy~ and truly spent time supporting. Let the court decide, nobody has all the facts anyway.
@mmmm
yes I did call you a lost soul… it seems that you are looking for a “true OT5 forum”, too bad this is a JYJ site – yes, you are lost.
No this is not an anti-dbsk, but it is made by “fans who are seeking a corner of the internet to share our views about anything related to JYJ”-per the blog founder statement https://thejyjfiles.wordpress.com/about/
As you have noticed the site doesn’t cater the other 2 members activities(not even JYJ’s activities as you’ve noticed the site mainly focuses on their lawsuit) unless they malign JYJ’s character then their actions are questioned. so yes you’re still lost.
If the truth made you feel bad and to conclude that I’m not being nice, well sorry for bursting your bubbles.
LOL, confirmation bias/illusory correlation? you just made me laugh for the fact I myself go to other sites and read their blog then make my own opinion which side I would like to stay – and no I don’t post comment in their site for due respect of their stans, if ever I do I’ll do it objectively- not “ Couldn’t you just find a more complete court transcript and translate that? ” or “ what’s the need for summary ” . We don’t pay those people who provide us the information. Be thankful for their effort. If you’re not contended there are still other sites you can go to. For us, ifans this issue is like a puzzle you collect all data, put it together and converse with other fans to get a better understanding of the situation – don’t be too trusting, I’m not, make your own decision from what you have gathered.
It’s a matter of choice, you want in or you want out. If you yourself find this fandom as “falling deep into this rut“, then by all means don’t read the article, and don’t lurk around telling the admin what and what not to be posted or how should it be posted (that is an ill mannered attitude of someone going around people’s houses telling them what and what not they are allowed to do – make your own blog and structure it as you wish), no one is forcing you to be here.
“I think it would actually benefit fandom if it stopped seeing the otherside as this ~terrible enemy~ and truly spent time supporting. Let the court decide, nobody has all the facts anyway.”
That kind of attitude is beneficial only for those fans (it also helps SM – artist best defense are their fans without their fans their popularity will die down as time goes) who doesn’t want to delve on the problem – JYJ activities is being block in Korea & Japan, undergoing lawsuit against SM for unfair contract & being put down by their former so called friends/brothers – don’t tell me that I’m having confirmation bias and illusory correlation because there are hard evidence circulating around about this. And this situations/events are not beneficial for JYJ it is destroying their characters.
How can an artists gain more fans if they have a very bad characters? Support them with their music and protect their characters from negative issues is the best answer (but don’t make rumors for the sake of protecting them).
Personally I don’t even care about the other party, but what they’ve done and doing to JYJ is another thing, I repulsively hate their guts and that is something that is needed to be corrected.
Last and foremost.
Be thankful what is given to you, don’t demand or ask for something that is not available – we don’t pay the people who share and translate the articles. If you think the article is not right/incomplete – provide the site of the correct one, they will be much thankful to you (me to).
Don’t be a critic if you don’t know anything, if you have enough information about the topic – by all means be one.
Be mature to comprehend what is written, and act maturely when making a comment – be objective not subjective – it makes a lot of difference. As you’ve notice with your other correspondents.
In here you are not judge of who you are but how you make your comment and how you present your opinion.
And if your stans is just let the court decide, while patiently waiting for the result, that’s fine with me coz I’ll join the others to actively support JYJ with their lawsuit, by following it and letting my voice be heard – like the petition we’ve made.
A fandom will not rut if the fans are rational, we know when to stand and when to bow down our heads. As for now we have to stand up for JYJ’s right. I just don’t know with you where you’re standing though.
“BUT before I get piled on and bashed on and called the derogatory hotel girl name (common guys, are you 12?)”
I don’t think hotel, in this case, means what you think it means.
“Hotel girls: “Ho”-comes from DC gallery Head to the Ground. This gallery was made when Yoonho’s drama Head To The Ground started. Die-hard Yoonho fans flocked to this gallery, when still all other major fansites were trying to keep all-5-mode.
This yoonho fans were very direct to support only YH and condemn JYJ, making/spreading rumors even when the gall was open to everyone. In TVXQ fandom history, there was no site that this openly condemn other members, even though there were some individual die-hard fans. So the HTTG gall started to be called “ex-communication gall (호적파인갤)” by dc tvxq gallery, for which Korean word starts with “ho”.
“Tel” comes from telzone dvxq gallery, where dc HTTG gall tries hard to overtake and eventually did so. So Ho+tel, hotel girls. These people have been so focused on attacking JYJ in public sites (non-fan sites) for the last year.”
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Do you have any translations and screencaps of this Ho-Tel people at work during the start of the lawsuit? Do you know if they are still active? Is there proof? Because calling anyone who disagrees with an opinion “Ho-Tel girl” smells of paranoia and scapegoating. That’s why I extremely disliked when this post just took and labeled a translation that had effort put into it (translating is hard), just an “Ho-Tel Account”.
Thanks again for your input.
I didn’t save any of the translations or screencaps, but http://hopeforjyj.wordpress.com used to report a lot of info about this person called “Forever” but the site is now protected. As far as I know, HoTels are still active, I don’t keep up with all of the rumors they spread, but they attacked and spread viruses at the DC Inside TVXQ gallery not so long ago. It’d be a lot easier to find these stuff if I knew Korean.
There is proof. If you go to DCtvxq-gall, you’ll notice HoTels attacking and trying to swarm the site with posts bashing JYJ and their fans. The reason for this? They want to “retaliate” against JYJ fans for mocking 2VXQ on Music Bank’s viewer board. These girls would use any excuse to attack JYJ and their fans even though JYJ fans have stayed clear of Music Bank and the ones attacking 2VXQ for their “unfair” win are actually VIPs who felt Big Bang deserved to win because their digital rankings were much higher than 2VXQ’s.
There have been numerous planned cyber attacks from HoTel girls. Not that JYJ fans are saints but for the most part, JYJ fans are only interested in things pertaining to and affecting JYJ. They don’t attend court hearings and draft (biased) fanaccounts of non-JYJ artists just because they hate that artist, if you can catch what I’m trying to imply.
Hi Ashley
Yeah, I’ve read those at hopeforjyj when it was still public. Then I reread them on jyj3 http://jyj3.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/trans-who-is-%E2%80%9Cforever%E2%80%9D/
I’m not gonna lie, these articles bashed Yunho horribly and some of the commenters made me feel nauseated. But I still read them, and found a bit odd that it never provided a screenshot or something, and since I know next to nothing of korean I couldn’t search more. If you ever feel like going to that blog-which-shall-not-be-named, there’s a post on this Forever guy/gal/thing and there’s a screencap and a transcript and translation.
I feel so lost sometimes, since I don’t know korean I feel at the mercy of what people want me to believe, so I just take everything with a grain of salt.
Thanks!
Greenie
Thank you, I’ll try and see if I can google fu this Music Bank and DCtvxqgall wank, because I really need to see this, not only read about it to believe something.
I do beg to differ on this: “They don’t attend court hearings and draft (biased) fanaccounts of non-JYJ artists just because they hate that artist, if you can catch what I’m trying to imply.”
The first account I read of the hearing was on a jyj site, so I could guess jyj fans attended http://jyj3.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/preview-what-happened-in-the-hearing-today-__/ and this account didn’t look quite professional.
I’m not being conflictive just for the sake of conflict, so please don’t misunderstand me. It’s just that lately it’s been really hard to be a fan.
Thank you for responding.
@mmm
I was referring to the fact that JYJ fans attended the JYJ vs. SM lawsuit because it directly impacted JYJ. For HoMin fans to go to a hearing is a bit strange isn’t it? To take meticulous notes and then to leave out crucial portions that would benefit JYJ’s side is even stranger, correct?
What you linked were fanaccounts but they stated that they were fanaccounts and never tried to pass them off as a full transcript. The brevity of their accounts and the way they wrote those accounts makes it pretty evident.
@mmmm
I think you missed the bit at the top of the post where most Korean JYJ supporters didn’t take this hearing seriously because it went so badly for SME. They weren’t going to bother sharing it with the international community because it was so ridiculous. You’re looking for “professional” but they aren’t professional–none of them are professional– these are ALL fan accounts. This is fandom. It’s all volunteers who love(or hate) JYJ.
If you want a professional transcription, I’m sure you can apply to the court for a copy. It should be public record. You might have to pay a fee since you aren’t part of the case, but it would be professional.
The point that Greenie was trying to make was that JYJ fans are NOT anti-fans. They don’t go looking to stir up trouble for other artists. Everybody is ignored unless something happens related to JYJ. There is a HUGE difference between rabid fan behaviour (which can be a little scary, I admit) and anti-fan behaviour (which I would often consider criminal)
Also, if you are finding it hard to be a fan because of this, then stop following this issue. A fan doesn’t have to be part of fandom, they just have to love the artist. It’s not worth getting stressed over. (Unless you enjoy that kind of stress which I do.)
@Greenie
Fair enough about the fanaccounts, I retract my stance, of course a fanaccount in inherently unprofessional and not a full transcript. More food for thought: If you’d read from the original source of the translation used in this very same post, you would see in the title that this was a summary of the trial session, not the full transcript, nobody ever claimed it was. The complete transcript should be translated eventually. I know, I know, there is misdirection from both sides, it’s a game of one-upmanship. It’s very off-putting.
And I do think the lawsuit concerns DBSK, since this whole break-up and lawsuit started it eventually ended up with a boycott.
Imma call it a night. See you later.
@eliza
A+
@Eliza
“I think you missed the bit at the top of the post where most Korean JYJ supporters didn’t take this hearing seriously because it went so badly for SME…”
The thing is, I don’t think the hearing went badly for SM, nor did it went badly for JYJ. It just was, and there is still not enough evidence to make a judgement. The Court is being thorough, accepting witness after witness.
“If you want a professional transcription, I’m sure you can apply to the court for a copy…”
Yeah, I think I need to start korean classes, because I get the gut-feeling that K-fans are trying to manipulate the sh*t out of I-fans.
“The point that Greenie was trying to make … ”
Greenie of course has a point, but being an OT5 I visit a lot of sites for news, and you never see the type of comments you see in syc, jyj3 et all in dbsknights or continueTVXQ for example.
There’s a lot of support for JYJ (I approve), but it always seems to be accompanied with a little side of ~otherside~ bashing (not approved). It doesn’t sit well with me.
“Also, if you are finding it hard to be a fan because of this, then stop following this issue. A fan doesn’t have to be part of fandom, they just have to love the artist. It’s not worth getting stressed over. (Unless you enjoy that kind of stress which I do.)”
Nooo, I live for drama! I can’t help myself LOL
It’s just that I like well thought storylines, the whole SM-is-complete-evil and JYJ-are-golden-paladins is not very realistic. Hopefully when the lawsuit ends everybody will move on.
Thank you all for these civilized conversations!
Night. ~J
I don’t think the hearing went badly for SM,
I think there are grounds for criminal charges because their accounting system is so fucked. Or their CFO is completely incompetent. At the very least they should have their stock trading suspended because they shouldn’t be on the exchange with that…unregulated a system in place. I knew it was bad, but I didn’t know it was this bad.
I think the judge is taking witnesses to let SME dig themselves a deeper hole and so he has a better idea about how much SME really owes JYJ. ^^
the whole SM-is-complete-evil and JYJ-are-golden-paladins is not very realistic.
It’s actually frighteningly common.
No, JYJ aren’t perfect, that’s obvious to anyone who has completed adolescence. But they are three guys wanting to be able to make their own decisions about their own lives.
SME on the other hand is the classic abuser. The statements that their spokesmen have made since the first motion was made in July 09 have made my blood run cold. It’s eerie. They could have come straight out of a textbook about spousal abuse. And far too many of those struggles to be rid of the abuser results in someone being on the wrong end of a knife or shotgun.
This history of this company’s relationship with its artists is clear. It keeps repeating itself every 5 years or so with SME refining how to keep hold every time. The charges of financial misconduct keep appearing as well. Sometimes they don’t get the evidence they need, but sometimes they do. (That’s how they caught Al Capone.) This civil case could be where they really trip themselves up, thinking that it isn’t very important. Show themselves plainly for the thieves they are.
In any case, I know what kind of people are running this company. LSM and his executive pace will do ANYTHING to keep hold of power. That is how I define evil.
@mmmm
I understand your need to have an ‘official’ transcript. You have every right to form your opinions based on the standards you require.
I on the other hand, am able to accept the things I see and hear from various sources w/o having to see an ‘official’ transcript. Making up my mind which ones offer creditable information. I am a very vibe oriented person. That is just the way I tend to relate. Have I been wrong, sometimes yes. Most times no. I’m also not the most trusting person in the world either. I tend to trust very few people. I have to know you for a VERY long time.
But even with all that, I still believe in JYJ’s case. Why? First off, I believe them when they say, they knew they might never get the chance to sing and perform again. SME’s history shows how far they will go. For these 3 young men to, as I say, ‘walk the plank together’, speaks volumes. They were WILLING to take that risk. This is no mean fete. You accept the consequences of your actions, but you also try and make it despite the dangers. My ‘vibes’ if you will, tell me they are serious, this is not play time.
Any company that will work its artists like dogs, take just about ALL the profit, and dispense so very little, is worthy of being taken down. One does not have to be a rocket scientist to know the reason SME is going park ape is because there is something they don’t want the ‘outside’ world to see. If this was a ‘simple’ case of not paying the artist their fair share, this whole situation would not have turned into the issue it has. But the contract itself indicates what SME’s intentions were/are. They want every cent they can squeeze out without having to pay out much.
They always claim they need to recoup what they put out. Well, show everyone what you put out to back up that claim. I don’t know a single solitary person who has ever seen any figures from them.
As Eliza mentioned, they show signs of an abuser. I can’t forget the videos I’ve seen where they have been physically and verbally abused. One quote from Junsu still rings in my mind. “what if I fall asleep on the stage!” Human beings who work for you should not be treated in this manner.
Are JYJ perfect, I would hazard a guess not. Why? Because human beings aren’t meant to be perfect, we are destined to be fallible from time to time. I will say though, they are exhibiting behaviors that show they are serious, intelligent, caring, talented young adults. They are focusing on their lives and careers. They are trying to work their way through this maze in which they find themselves.
So, I’m not as concerned as you are about seeing and reading ‘official’ transcripts. I’m going to continue following my vibes.
For me perfection manifests itself in things like, sunrises/sunsets, beautiful flowers and their scents (even with my allergies 🙂 ), and babies smiles. So, when I see the actions of SME vs. the actions of JYJ with their silly antics with each other, their hard work at producing their music, the smiles and joy on their faces when they interact with their fans, I know in my heart, and with my vibes which of the two is closer to perfection.
I hope you manage to find what you are looking for. I know I have.
Hi Eliza
“I think there are grounds for criminal charges because their accounting system is so fucked. “
SM is a public traded company. A public company gets audited yearly by an external party and their financial statements get an OK, the external audit firm basically tells the government and investors that the book-keeping is sound. In the case of SM, they have an accounting auditor Yulchon, and the external audit firm is KPMG (one of the big 3 worldwide heavyweights). What, I’m trying to say, is that I disagree to an extent about their accounting being completely crooked. If SM would fall, their auditor’s reputation would also fall, so they keep SM in check. You could argue that SM and the auditors and everyone are in league, but SM isn’t that rich of a company to be paying all and sundry, TV Stations or Electronic manufacturers are much more rich, for example.
“I think the judge is taking witnesses to let SME dig themselves a deeper hole and so he has a better idea about how much SME really owes JYJ. ^^”
It’s not as easy as black and white. I like the fact that the Court is being completely thorough, willing to interview every witness. What I find odd is that JYJ’s side has not called forth for witnesses of their own.
“SME on the other hand is the classic abuser…”
SM is a business, businesses are cold, their first priority are investors and second employees, which include artists, salary-men and a metric ton of other “small” people. You are anthropomorphizing a business operation which is weird. SM isn’t even a corporation with true evil practices, the title would be fought between Nestle, Monsanto, Unilever, Procter&Gamble, Nike, etc.
I’m not pro-SM, but I stand by my earlier statement, turning something into a complete villain is not conductive to rational arguments, although it makes for primetime melodrama (good old-fashioned emotional manipulation).
“In any case, I know what kind of people are running this company. LSM and his executive pace will do ANYTHING to keep hold of power. That is how I define evil.”
Dude, Lee Soo Man is not even the current CEO (the ehad honcho that makes the shots), why does everyone use him as scapegoat? Because he founded the company? As I said before, a business is a business, and I’m truly sad that JYJ got to feel the cold fist of it. Once this lawsuit ends, JYJ will finally be able to go and travel their own path.
~J
Hullo Butterfly
Thanks for responding, you seem much more calm today 🙂
“I understand your need to have an ‘official’ transcript. You have every right to form your opinions based on the standards you require.”
Yeah, I know, I’m a whore for facts.
“I on the other hand, am able to accept the things I see and hear from various sources w/o having to see an ‘official’ transcript. Making up my mind which ones offer creditable information. I am a very vibe oriented person”
Using vibes is not the way I prefer to judge things, but it’s still respectable of course.
“Any company that will work its artists like dogs, take just about ALL the profit, and dispense so very little, is worthy of being taken down”
How do you know they dispense so very little of the profit? That’s why we have this lawsuit, a Court will make the decision. Also, SM does give artists advance payments without managing them as loans, so they don’t charge interests (it’s in the transcript), that’s an awesome employee benefit. The point I think I’m trying to make is that saying “treating its artists like dogs” is a bit too much. Bu I understand that you are an emotional person.
“But the contract itself indicates what SME’s intentions were/are. They want every cent they can squeeze out without having to pay out much.”
You’ve read a translation of the contract? Is it in this site?
“They always claim they need to recoup what they put out. Well, show everyone what you put out to back up that claim. I don’t know a single solitary person who has ever seen any figures from them.”
They are doing that for this lawsuit no? That’s why I would have liked an official transcript, with what kind of evidence was presented. Because as far as I know, everything out there and in here is a fan-account, and as some people rightfully pointed out to me, all fan-accounts are biased in essence.
“As Eliza mentioned, they show signs of an abuser. I can’t forget the videos I’ve seen where they have been physically and verbally abused. One quote from Junsu still rings in my mind. “what if I fall asleep on the stage!” Human beings who work for you should not be treated in this manner.”
Link please? I’m gonna be bullheaded here but I really do need a video of this physical abuse you speak of, because if not, it’s just rumour-mongering. And physical and/or emotional abuse ARE basis for prosecution, so I’m all for suing for that. Defamation and libel are also basis for prosecution.
“Are JYJ perfect, I would hazard a guess not…”
Glad that you don’t think they’re perfect, because they’re not. I always roll my eyes when people sanctify them. That’s not normal fan behavior.
“So, I’m not as concerned as you are about seeing and reading ‘official’ transcripts. I’m going to continue following my vibes.”
Ok.
“For me perfection manifests itself in things like, sunrises/sunsets, beautiful flowers and their scents (even with my allergies ), and babies smiles. So, when I see the actions of SME vs. the actions of JYJ with their silly antics with each other, their hard work at producing their music, the smiles and joy on their faces when they interact with their fans, I know in my heart, and with my vibes which of the two is closer to perfection.”
We agree, I also love the small things, and I also believe both SM and JYJ have done silly things in this “battle”, JYJ music is nice (except the songs with the heavy autotune), their faces are even nicer. My vibes and brain keep telling me that I still don’t know nothing.
“I hope you manage to find what you are looking for. I know I have.”
Good for you.
Thanks again.
~J
@mmmm
I get where you’re coming from now. I’ll leave it at that.
@mmmm
I’m not sure how you can tell I’m much calmer when you’ve never seen or heard me be less calmer. Believe me, you would know the difference.
Since you are in need of references about the abuse issue. Go to JYJ3, check the archives for the posts that cover the issue about the blogger from the Japanese online site. In one of the posts concerning this, a couple of people uploaded videos of those examples. I had seen one of them before, the one where the hair stylist hits Yunho upside the head, calling him a brat because he complained about being burned with the curling iron while he was doing his hair. This one is slightly different because it’s at a different angle, but the same incident.
The other one shows them as a group being berated verbally like little children. Aparently, it’s at some press event. It was a Chinese reporter’s video. With regard to the comment from Junsu. I saw that one so long ago, I really don’t recall which blog it was. Obviously, it has to be black and white for you. For the rest of us, at least for me, that whole operation smells like bad fish.
I have my own feelings about them, and they are not going to be changed. With regard to their accounting firms. The world of business is cluttered with carcases that should have been doing the right thing and weren’t. Do the names Enron and Arthur Anderson ring a bell?
And as for LSM not being the CEO any longer. Yeah, we all know that, but this puppy is his template. And since it hasn’t been changed or altered since it’s inception, he gets to have it stuck to him like a barnicle to a ship. Especially since the tactics used with HOT, JTL, and Shinwa have not changed. And, he’s still making out like a fat rat financially. I have no symphathy for the viper.
The business as usual mantra doesn’t work with me. Employees who are unhappy at all the companies you mentioned before, can leave peacefully by turning in a resignation letter and their company id. No hard feelings. JYJ doesn’t get the opportunity to do it that peacefully. They get to have their good names trashed, their livehood threatened, and blackballed from performing on equal footing with their peers. Kind of lopsided if you ask me. Why is that?
@Butterfly
“I’m not sure how you can tell I’m much calmer when you’ve never seen or heard me be less calmer. Believe me, you would know the difference.”
Well, the first time you responded to me you told me to go lurk again.
“Since you are in need of references about the abuse issue. Go to JYJ3, check the archives for the posts…”
I’ll search for those videos at jyj3. They should show those things to the authorities and make a case of it.
“I really don’t recall which blog it was. Obviously, it has to be black and white for you. For the rest of us, at least for me, that whole operation smells like bad fish.”
No, I’m in the gray area.
“I have my own feelings about them, and they are not going to be changed. With regard to their accounting firms. The world of business is cluttered with carcases that should have been doing the right thing and weren’t. Do the names Enron and Arthur Anderson ring a bell?”
Exactly, when the Enron debacle came to light, Arthur Andersen was one of the top dogs as an audit firm in the international arena. After Enron, Arthur Andersen disappeared, it disappeared. Big audit firms have been cautious ever since.
“And as for LSM not being the CEO any longer…”
Ok. Although, the JTL and Shinhwa case are different from JYJ’s case. JTL and Shinhwa never sued for termination of contract. Shinhwa sued for the right to use the name Shinhwa. Do we have a KPFC type letter that shows JTL was blacklisted?
“The business as usual mantra doesn’t work with me…”
Fair enough. Although I don’t think their names have been trashed to the general public though. Do you think so?
I wish they could have negotiated instead of a lawsuit. You will probably argue that SM would have none of this negotiating stuff. Yet, DBSK as 5 where the goose that laid golden eggs, why would the company forgo negotiations to keep the 5? You will then argue about the abuse, but I really need to go find and watch the videos first, and I’ll come back to you. Ok?
@mmmm
Hi your words “In the case of SM, they have an accounting auditor Yulchon, and the external audit firm is KPMG (one of the big 3 worldwide heavyweights).” struck a chord in me.
I’m from Iceland and back in 2007 and 2008 our economy crumbled. Before that our GDP was no. 1#, or at least top 5 and everybody thought that our society was among the most transparent ones in the world. Turned out it was not so. The banks, were all rotten inside despite the beautiful reports written by them and approved by auditor firms, among which were KPMG and Price Waterhouse Coopers.
Because of this, Icelanders most likely will have to pay around 3,4% of Iceland’s yearly GDP for the next twenty or forty years, and this was after four years of negotiations and peoples protestations against high payments and even our presidents veto of the first draft. If your are more curious you can search about the Icesave issue and the secret documents from the former top 3 bank, Kaupthing, uploaded by wikileaks though they only show part of the issue.
What I’m trying to say, that when you start playing at certain levels, audit companies are just gloves of the companies. Just because their proclaim themselves to always present the correct image of companies, it does not necessarily mean so.
*I meant pay to England and Holland because of deposit owners from those countries.
And if The JYJ files allows the link to appear, here is the wikileaks file: http://mirror.wikileaks.info/leak/kaupthing-claims.pdf
It basically shows how the bank lent VIPs like members of our parliament and others ridiculously high loans, which basically translates to semi-lawful bribes.
@ mmmm
“Exactly, when the Enron debacle came to light, Arthur Andersen was one of the top dogs as an audit firm in the international arena. After Enron, Arthur Andersen disappeared, it disappeared. Big audit firms have been cautious ever since.”
I disagree. You should probably do more research into auditing scandals that have happened and each scandal involved huge publicly traded companies which involved one of the big five auditors : Ernst and Young, Pricewaterhouse, Deloitte, KPMG etc
None of these auditors have been cautious if more they’ve become cleverer. A good example is the subprime mortgage crisis that led to the global financial meltdown in which many banks collapsed. The audit painted a completely different picture when in fact most of them held bad credit and were in shaky grounds. Look at Lehman brothers- it collapsed, the auditor Ernest young never disclosed the fact that Lehman brothers were in shaky grounds,and in fact the accountants used repurchase agreement to make the finances seems strong when in fact it was the opposite.
The auditors work for these companies and their work is to ensure that the audit is favourable and do you really think that Lehman brothers would tell their investors that they held bad securities, no they had to find a way not to disclose it to the investors . The whole situation is much more complicated than this and what am trying to get at is that the notion that audits ever since Enron have been cautious is a lie , maybe not, but they are more cautious not to get caught. They are contracted by the companies to ensure that a good picture of the financial position of the companies is painted.
Most of these is never known until the company itself files for bankruptcy. Get yourself a good accountant and you can manipulate the financial statements so I’ld generally not believe what the independent contracted auditors say especially the big five cause they’re paid to make them look good.
lolz, I posted the wrong link. The original one has been taken down by wikileaks because it’s too old but here is a report written about it in English
http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/kaupthings-loan-book-exposed-and-an-injunction-ordered-against-ruv.html
no I’m not gonna bash you.
But if you’re in Korea, we ifans would appreciate it if you’ll provide us with the complete transcript and translation of the court hearing. Or provide us which site that have a complete transcript, I’m pretty sure someone will translate it for you. And we will be very thankful to you. But if you don’t have the transcript, it is ill rude to tell people what to do at their own site.
and btw, with or without the compiler’s summary explanation it will not change my opinion to what is happening with JYJ lawsuit, and other the regulars here will agree to my comment. And the explanations are for those who have difficulty in comprehending the articles since english is not their primary language.
As you stated, you’ve read both accounts, I’m pretty sure by now you’ve already made up you’re mind on what to believe. So why be bothered of the compilers explanation.
and one more thing if you want to be heard regarding how the article be written… go to DNBN site, the compiler is there. It’s better to tell her rather here. She wouldn’t know if you write your complaint here.
ps
no our maturity level here is not of a 12 y.o maybe yours’ is. Since coming over here seeking for something is an attitude of a 12yo who lacks of attention.
no our maturity level here is not of a 12 y.o maybe your are
@Butterfly & Eliza…
I was just waiting for you two ladies to comment! ^^
I am not a ot5 fan just a new JYJ fan but I can relate to your frustration in a way. I am in Japan and I started reading blogs like this from a desire to find a way to counter all the JYJ bashing on other sites. Blog posts like this can only go so far in convincing non-fans.
I understand that this is a JYJ site and fan accounts are fan accounts. But I wish I could find an impartial account from a third party about the lawsuit-which makes me wonder why aren’t any news outlets doing an in-depth investigative report about this lawsuit. I mean there are hundreds of thousands of fans all over the world following this thing and the outcome will have major effect on how Kpop fans view Korea. Reading this summary makes me think that a smart journalist would be better at getting to the bottom of this than the Korean civil court.
I am right with you wondering why the news agencies aren’t taking a greater interest in this. However, given how incestuous the Korean media is, I think I would only trust reporting from an outside source. The only one I found with any substance were the Time articles from 2002.
@sweetJJ
Yeah, I’d love a transcript done by a third party, it would certainly be much more objective.
Yeah about the lack of interest, it’s weird no? After the injunction in 2009, there was even panels at universities with professores and lawyers, etc about this topic. Nowadays we have that crazy attention-seeking lawyer in twitter.
@Eliza
Oh God ikr, Korean media is so sensationalist! They were the ones that coined the term slave-contract. So disrespectful to people who truly suffer as slaves in the world.
@mmmm
“Oh God ikr, Korean media is so sensationalist! They were the ones that coined the term slave-contract. So disrespectful to people who truly suffer as slaves in the world.”
I do see similarities with the term ‘slave-contract’. Why? Looking at what the provisions that contract stipulates, I see quite a few similarities with what my own ancestors, who were African slaves in America, went through. It’a ALL about total CONTROL of another human being to use them to make a profit.
Maybe the translation offered here on The JYJ Files, of the decision handed down by the district court regarding SME’s injunction request isn’t good enough for you, but it is for me.
Quite a few of those provisions discussed a number of issues that could directly be compared to some of the things I’ve uncovered since I’ve been doing my family research. But you know one truly interesting thing, in some instances slaves could even buy their own way out of slavery, even some with families.
Even the KFTC said the formula SME used for artists to get out of the contract is unfair, and made them change it, at least for the current roster. JYJ is going to have to wait for the end of the legal process to see if they can avoid having to pay almost 400M USD, in penalties, if they lose. That’s the low end of the calculations that have been offered, given the formula SME imposed in the contract. Now how would JYJ manage to come up with that amount? Sounds like continued servitude to me.
Imagine that, African slaves in America could get away with paying about 1200-2500 USD, back in the day, to go free, but JYJ will have to pay a king’s ransom to get free.
One thing to keep in mind though. The sensationalist-media did not ‘just’ coin the phrase, it looks as if that might have originated back around the time the articles appeared in the Time magazine link that was provided.
@Butterfly
“Even the KFTC said the formula SME used for artists to get out of the contract is unfair, and made them change it, at least for the current roster.”
They found unfair the penalty clause in case of termination of contract and the length of the contract, I know. They made every entertainment agency change their contracts.
“JYJ is going to have to wait for the end of the legal process to see if they can avoid having to pay almost 400M USD, in penalties, if they lose.”
That’s speculation, not a fact (sensationalist articles right? Time is no exception lol). If they were to lose, the Court will calculate the appropriate amount of penalty, but I don’t think JYJ would lose anyway.
I’m not even going to comment on the rest of your response. We’re back to the internet credentials -_- What if I told you my ancestors were black too? Just that they arrived in a ship to the coast of Guerrero, Mexico. Would you believe me? Can I still find offensive when people use the term slave-contract?
See you around.
@mmmm…
I just noticed this comment of yours, “Yeah, I think I need to start korean classes, because I get the gut-feeling that K-fans are trying to manipulate the sh*t out of I-fans.”
I may have to caution you on that because we do have resident Korean fans here & on JYJ3 telling us how it is over there. You can take Jimmie for example. I am sure you would have an idea who she is since I believe you have been lurking on this site enough, yes? And with her credentials, I am sure you would agree with me that when she gives us an idea of how it is ‘over there’ on a particular moment in this fandom, what she says can be considered reliabele, right?
Hi Sammie, I’ve see you around on many other sites. When you’re not in oversensitive-attack-mode you seem tranquil.
About your first comment. I don’t get it, because there are Korean fans in the site and jyj3, I should believe everything at 100%? No. I still believe K-fans (both sides) are trying to manipulate I-fans.
About Jimmie and credentials. This is the Internet, I could make a million claims, normal (I’m a girl) or extravagant (I’m a lawyer I know what I’m saying hurr hurr) or downright weird claims. Would you fully believe me? I hope not.
No disrespect to Jimmie, I get what people are trying to do with this site, it’s appreciated. I just don’t appreciate the articles that call for bashing, and I also don’t approve of translation stealing and ‘helpful’ summaries that feel as if we are being steered like cattle. There must be other ways of protecting our guys.
Peace
~J
@mmmm
I appreciate your commitment to engage in conversation TO THE EXTENT THAT IT IS GENUINE. You are rather unfortunate in that I have studied discourse theory and can spot enough of the red flags to know when someone is being disingenuous. For all your carefully placed caveats, ‘I don’t hate anyone…’ and ‘I don’t mean to undermine the characters of JYJ, their fans (and now me), but…’ that is exactly what you are doing. And I for one do not appreciate it.
But most of all, I don’t appreciate that you are deflecting the crux of the conversation into a comparison between two blogs whose legitimacy, even if it were of import, lie in different forms of presenting information (one, in my opinion, in highly-skilled manipulation and legally prosecutable defamation and this one in providing food for thought). Along the way, you seek to discredit the likes of me and Korean JYJ fans…let me tell you right now, unless you are also a Korean citizen or one in their service, you have no right. For Korean JYJ fans, this is a case that involves the infringement of the rights of other Korean citizens such as themselves and for the likes of me, a Korean Government employee and representative, this is a case that concerns the integrity of the Korean State and, as such, is linked to my job. In trivialising the matter and trying to profit from sowing confusion, you are in fact showing that you don’t care about JYJ as 1) human beings with rights under international law or 2) Korean citizens with rights and duties under Korean national law. Most likely, you don’t even care about Koreans at all….or else only in so much as my people provide you ingratiating entertainment to your liking.
As a self-confessed lurker you most likely already know that I am averse to being uncivil or definitively interrupting conversation, but in this case I would thank you to take your ironic ‘peace’ and thinly-veiled discursive agenda elsewhere.
@jimmie: finally somebody can call this out for other people to see some very-well-hidden meanings behind mmmm’s words. (i actually waited for somebody to speak this out because i know i’m not good with writing in english for legal-related subject, thus resulting in misinterpreting my intent saying). mmmm reminds me of somebody else from omonatheydidnt, who claimed to be relating to law field and who always appeared to be rational and seriously considering of both sides of argument, until the date it’s too obvious that s/he thinks JYJ is gready and unreasonable since the very beginning of this lawsuit, despite of all decisions made (and widely publicized / acknowledged) to K-idol contract scene and issues since then, due to this lawsuit – like change in contract length, protection of under-18 trainee, change in consent/negotiation term of contract (even it’s only on paper for now), change in idol work schedule agreement, among some others (and s/he always think JYJ is so emotional, not logical, immature and not smart like other bandmates, not ‘saint’ enough, thus this lawsuit is like JYJ’s emotional whim). this person, to many degrees, confirm the status-quo issue, that i would love to read an article here on this topic (because frankly so far i can’t find any well-informed and thought-provoking K-pop article like in here).
so personally, my thank-you to you.
with that said, i do want to read the full transcript of this court hearing. it’s a long battle for JYJ and Korean people who concern (and very costly to JYJ too!). so the least an outsider like me can do is to form a firm stand basing on full information, before speaking out. i optimistically hope and expect so from readers here.
personally to mmmm: i rest my case with you here. but just one small note for Times articles about K-pop: you can always use ‘sensational’ excuse when it comes to journal issues to your heart’s content, but it’s also a cold fact that quite a number of exposed contract terms and situations between JYJ and SM do apply to ones of previous K-pop groups like H.O.T, G.O.D (mentioned by Times), provided that you know how to filter properly ‘sensational words’, of your saying, from such articles. or maybe if you are that concerned about K-pop business model, this can help you to understand a bit more: http://www.hellodamage.com/top/2010/03/01/interview-with-an-ex-visual-kei-record-executive/ (it’s ’bout J-rock but when you’ve got a picture of how especially SM (and K-pop in general) leveraged their idol business models and works, i hope you can get what i mean. also, J-pop fans are long-term battling the same issue as said in that article, which generated quite a long time ago already).
Hi everyone,
Good debating team^^
Our [ thejyjfiles ] are awesome 🙂
@mmmm since you are a lurker, I will take everything you have written here as with the grain of salt.
I am glad to see mmmm so bitten with your thick skin and a twisted mind as a representative for truetvxq blog with your status OT5.
I don’t visit those negative people or their environment. Instead of providing solution to JYJ’s slave contract problem, Ho-tel girls, truetvxqblog, tvxq2 and SM twisting brain works frantically to keep in denial. They are angry and it shows through their actions and words even when they pretend to be nice.
@number7
just curious, are you talking about Munim B./forgottenseason/honeyfunnybunny? Because I saw a person retweet her post and thought of your post. Though I don’t remember her being very negative towards JYJ only slightly recently.
@jimmie-yah
thank you. really.
@SaCa: no, it’s not about her. i can’t recall this person’s username at the moment (i don’t know that person’s real name) but i remember that at one time, in a post, one comment showed that they didn’t like how ‘righteous’ this person wanted to appear on omonatheydidnt and then many others agreed afterwards (quite a long thread too). and that person was a fan of siwon or something (s/he likes ‘polite’ – and clean-image – SM idols). that’s all i can remember now ^^;;
@ number 7
The person, I believed is Inheritable.
@mmmm
Ok, obviously the discussion for you is going to go on like the Energizer Bunny. It’s beginning to sound like a computer programming loop. My final comment to you will be this….
While you continue in your search for ‘facts’ that suit you, and trying to dislodge the support that exists with THIS group of JYJ fans; this is what I will be busy doing.
I am going to begin right now culling my Media Player music playlist, save it , and have it ready for the final decision day. I’m going to start it off first with every JYJ song on my computer. Then I’m going to add songs from some of my favorite artists, and some not necessarily favorites. Songs from artists like Kool ‘n the Gang – the ultimate – ‘Celebration’, McFadden & Whiteheads’ – ‘There’s No Stopping Us Now!’, Earth,Wind & Fire’ – ‘Lets Groove Tonight’, Gladys Knights’ version of – ‘I Hope You Dance’, Sister Sledge’s – ‘We Are Family’….the list is going to go on and on….
Although my music roots are in, and first fave is R ‘n B, I have a rather eclectic taste. Queen’s – We Will Rock You!, Bee Gees – ‘Stayin Alive’….there will be so much diversity from all over the place. Can’t leave out my favorite Latino artists either. Once I get the lists together and saved, then I move on to the sustenance.
There will be a bottle of my favorite champagne in my ice bucket. I’m still deciding on my comfort foods, there are some toss ups here. Finishing off with sweets, either my favorite candy – pecan turtles, or some tiramisu. I’m probably going to get a new champagne goblet – the occasion warrants it.
Then I will come online and open up tabs on my browser and float back and forth to my favorite JYJ sites, like THIS ONE, and celebrate with my sistas and whatever fanboys who want to join in. And as Prince says….’party like it’s 1999’…I know, it’s 2011 but that song for me will always be relevant!
So, like you, I do believe they are going to win. And I’m beyond happy they didn’t negogiate…HoMin should have come out with them, but hey, that was their CHOICE. I’m hoping they go after their copyrights and royalty rights, because I don’t want that nest of bloodsucking vipers to keep not one cent of the monies that are due JYJ.
And finally. Despite the issue of Internet credentials, since I don’t feel the need to prove anything I mention about my family history, my conscience is clear on what I state about it. Ciao.
You read my mind, sista!!! I have already prepared a celebratory playlist and my husband and I are going to partay!!!
Well now, party over here! 😉
To answer your question politely, I’m 12×2 (=24 years old) baby^^. I’ve already lived by myself (work to pay everything on my own) for two years to fully understand why JYJ filled the law suit and I have no problem with their explanation ‘cos I have the same thoughts using my own inference.
One who have already worked and have to pay for their own expenses also do not have any problem with this post, right? ^^
The most important parts of all this that stand out for me are the ones that indicate why they are so insistent on slamming JYJ up against the wall. JYJ is responsible for SME having to do something it has NEVER had to do before, ACCOUNT for why the artists make so little and the mgmt and shareholders get richer by the second.
Their accounting practices, for lack of a better term, are obviously geared to maximize the profits for themselves. That’s the reason the contracts are practically ‘slave’ natured in context. Total control by mgmt. Don’t you worry your pretty little heads about anything, we’ll take care of it all. You sure will.
Along come three, possibly in the beginning five, of the stable who are saying “hold up, wait a minute, where is ‘my money’?” They are continually told, it’s all expenses, there’s nothing left. Well, now is the time for the day of reckoning about where the money is. Looks can be deceiving, but I’m almost sure part of that $100M USD portfolio that belongs to LSM is made up of JYJ’s money.
SME is now faced with exposing their ‘propietary’ accounting method, they are also faced with the prospect of ‘profit sharing’, and they are being shown up for the ammoral and immoral SOBs they are. All reasons why they want JYJ’s skin. But bad intentions are now going to be rewarded in the manner which they should be rewarded – the emporer is going to have to parade around without his clothes.
But what SME seems to be forgetting, when you tell one lie, you have to keep telling others to cover the first one. Pretty soon, there are so many lies out there, you can’t keep them straight. When I see some of the questions asked by JYJ’s legal team, and the judge, I ask myself…what doesn’t SME get? I find it amusing, the witness who either couldn’t be bothered to show up for the last hearing, or SME couldn’t find her, is the one who’s providing all the comic relief at this hearing.
Your lies are beginning to unravel here. Now everyone is seeing it, and smelling it, and it ain’t pretty. Tough.
imma say hello for now.. ^^
ill read this later at home… hello, hello butterfly~ fly~ fly~
For starter, majority of korean fans sided with JYJ, and that must mean something, If it means nothing to you, I don’t know where your brain is. By that, I really can’t comprehend a lot of i-fans insisting on going to this site and bashing/questioning those who support, respect and adore the trio. If you believe that we don’t really know the truth or its not all the truth, I believe most of us here are contented with what is presented to us what and we can get. We form our opinions and make a stand. There’s nothing wrong with that. If you don’t like what you see, please don’t insist that what we’re doing is wrong.
There are really few articles regarding the lawsuit and whenever it was release, the authenticity, credibility is always being questioned. You have brains, believe what you want to believe.
We will never love you, no matter what your place will always have a group of fairy, we only after your being there, please don’t give up, we had agreed, we pledge ourselves to guard by FIGHTING, JYJ! TVXQ FOREVER FIVE!
So many guests appearance here, and if I’m not mistaken, one of them used to be grandstanding in SYC before the site implement comment moderation. She used to write very long narrative comments defending the two precious boys and even their beloved company and now she’s found another venue to show-up her talent rebutting anything she found unfavorable to her bias, (but still claiming to be supporting the TVXQ5). To all those claiming to be loving the five boys, I just sincerely wish that you do the same for JYJ in those antiJYJ sites where you can find horrible image defamation articles/comments against JaeChunSu. Hope you also use your talent in writing lengthy comments to defend JYJ as what you’re doing here in favor of the other two. You’re supporting the 5 of them, aren’t you? hoping for your honesty/sincerity… or else you’re the greatest hypocrites I’ve ever met.
You could talk to me directly you know?
But you’re confusing me with another person. I used to troll jyj cray cray stans (never jyj themselves) in syc because it was fun. But then, I kinda grew up.
Could you show them to me: “horrible image defamation article”, please? I ask because in the international sites I frequent, including DBSK only sites, I’ve never seen horrible images defamation articles.
Also, relax, I hate no one.
@mmmm
Could you show them to me: “horrible image defamation article”, please? I ask because in the international sites I frequent, including DBSK only sites, I’ve never seen horrible images defamation articles.
go to truetvxq fansite,
and then tell me what do you things after that.
that the home for the real troll always basing JYJ in every articel he/she posting and Always thing homin and sm is the true.
ps. i realy heat that site.
peace to.
Aw sorry I haven’t entertain you for a good talk and I have no plan to. I think you just want to have some fun and play around with the JYJfans and I couldn’t afford to give you that pleasure.
And about that articles defaming JYJ, if you havn’t encounter them, so good for you, just keep your innocense away from those, they are awful anyway and it’s not my behaviour spreading garbage around.
@peace
Hi Peace. Thank you for responding. And indeed, I’ve been to truetvxq blog, it’s not that different from this place, it’s just that it is on the other side of the spectrum. The posts are articulate enough and present translation of official documents with links to the official pages from where the documents were downloaded. For other type of entries, it always provides screencaps, audio files, and sources. The commenters can sometimes go off on tangents, but for the most part it’s very civil. Except one time that one of the regulars here went and wrote a very distasteful comment, even I got mad lol.
I don’t think you’ve actually visited that site Peace, because the entries themselves don’t bash JYJ. There are many discussions and theories in the comments though and if you don’t have thick skin and are really emotionally invested, I can totally understand people getting really angry. But at the end, it’s good, having two points of view to then try and find the middle ground.
~J
PS. I don’t hate either site.
@kris
I would really like to see those articles, it’s better to face the truth that some fans can be really ugly, then going on living in ignorance.
I used to troll at syc, at the end of last year it was a very bad time to be fan, there was hate all around (there still is) so it was either troll or cry. But I got better.
~J
@mmm How do the entries not bash JYJ when all the evidence they present is skewed to make JYJ and their families look like the bad party? After all, this site and many other sites have also presented the same information but came up with different conclusions. And might I add, that site you’re talking about inserts tons of negative and unnecessary biased opinions and comments within the very “evidence” you’re so fond of. I’m very suspicious of your motives because you are not even here to discuss the court hearing but you want to lend credence to a site that is shown to have left out important portions of the court trancript that favored JYJ. Do you see the irony of your actions? Why don’t you head over to that site and ask them why they chose to translate from a Korean site that has very anti-JYJ sentiment. I’ll personally douse myself in sanitizers and go visit that site to see your comments. Take care!
“I used to troll jyj cray cray stans (never jyj themselves) in syc because it was fun. But then, I kinda grew up.”
I don’t think you grew up at all, sweetie. I still see you here trolling this article “for fun.” It is one thing to ask questions when confused but it is another thing to refuse to listen to reason, blocking your ears and claiming to be impartial. You don’t have to read this site at all, you can go back to your “Precious” site and have “fun” there. Also, you say that you are OT5, do you defend JYJ on that “Precious” site? You said that you have never seen article on that site bashing JYJ. I think that we are not visiting the same site, then. Also, here we tend to “bash” SM not HoMin (it is JYJ v. SM, afterall)…unless they go on to bash JYJ on TV when JYJ has no opportunity to go on TV and rebut their statements, then we JYJers strongly word our disapproval of HoMin’s actions/words.
One thing I’m curious about: JYJ got an advance from SM in 2010? After the Seoul District Court provisional ruling (Oct. 2009)? Sorry… Please don’t get the idea I’m asking because to defend SM (I dislike SM, to put it mildly). But I’m confused by the timeline. Can someone please explain this?
*Listening to “Song With No Name Part 1” right now… Appropriate timing!
Sorry… I realize my question may sound aggressive — it’s bad phrasing. 😦 I’m sincerely curious. Guess I’m surprised SM would give them an advance after the provisional ruling (even though it’s the least of what SM owes them).
Considering that SME made such a big deal over the “advances” made in mid-2009, it’s unlikely that these “advances” were paid directly to JYJ. If there were any paid, it was likely outstanding bills on their “accounts” — health insurance, the balance on the lease of the car (which was likely returned), stuff like that. I can’t see SME giving the boys anything.
For the peanut gallery — no, I don’t know any of this for sure. It’s an educated guess.
According to this transcript, yes. SM gave an advance payment in 2010
“- Yes. It was paid for the health insurance, citation for the personal vehicle and etc., so the company took care of it at the time.”
No you are not alone. That struck me as odd as well. I had to do a double and a triple head shake on that one. 🙂 I thought I was miss reading. 🙂 But looking at Eliza’s comment below, that all makes sense. I feel like I’m in good company. 😉
My comment was for you, sakana17 in your first comment. I think I hit the wrong reply link. Also, thought I had erased a couple of those smilies. I should be going to bed now., getting bleary eyed.
@Eliza, mmmm, ButterfliesAreFree Thanks! Yes, it seems likely that the advance went directly to pay for the health insurance, car payments and so on. It makes more sense to me now.
@sakana17
I too have to read it several times, on different accounts to make sure I’m reading it right. the advance payment made on 2010. But I also noticed that they (JYJ) haven’t got the payment for the 2010 sales of their music album – withJYJ account 315 hearing posted 3/21 (sori I can’t post the link have a different web set-up). So I’m more curious which happened first. If the advance payment happened before the calculation it is still understandable for the 3 to make the advance payment request for the fact that they’re still waiting for the sales calculation.
I wouldn’t assume that SM will release any money that would put the company on the deficit side.
(that is my deduction of the situation)
@masi
From what I understand, SME takes care of things that the boys should have had control over themselves. If they were being paid properly they could have made their own car arrangements. If they were being paid properly, they would make their own health insurance payment (unless they really are in an employee/employer relationship, then the employer usually pays and it shouldn’t be an “advance”). In any case, it seems these “advance” payments are part of the way that SME set up their accounting. They aren’t anything special like SME would like to imply.
@eliza
Yes we have the same understanding and theory that “advances” are nothing special, they are just means for the artist to receive their income (they still need to live on a daily basis) while waiting for the accounting to make their financial report (only done in every 6 months). The “advances” made are actually the income that TVXQ should have received for the first place if the accounting is done on a monthly basis where any person working receives a monthly income thereby they be able to budget their own expenses. I hope other people reading the 3/15 account would not think that the 3 are taking advantage of the company in making those advances coz if you’ll think it properly, they already have worked hard for it. And so advances are nothing special. That’s why I’ve said I’m curious which happens first and no company/SM will pay their artist if they think they’re on the deficit side or artist will owe them instead of them/SM owing money to their artist.
I’m not sure if they have a basic pay, so I’m assuming that the artist income is based on their album sales, cf’s, and other activities. (too bad TVXQ are not paid for their “non-regular” appearances – for me it’s very unfair the labor of love for SM *saying this sarcastically ), plus the unending list of expenses charged to the group, yes it is really unfair, no wonder we’re having this discussion of unfair contract and waiting for SM to provide all expenses record to know if those are really the actual expenses due for the 3, no dumping of extra expenses from the company.
Talking about being paid properly, I just remembered, as an artists what benefits do they have from SM? Like if you’re a normal employee, the company pays for your health insurance, sometimes as an executive you have a car allowance and such… I wonder what does SM provide for their artists. The more I get deeper for this case the more I see SM as an opportunist parasite.
“Oh I see a naive talented person here… let me help you attain your dream… since you have acquired so much expenses (other expenses are mine but they wouldn’t know it) here’s your $3 pay, while keeping the $20 in their pocket.” this sound like SM. 🙂
i support both group but
i realy dont like when homin and homin fans including they self in this situation
this is not they war, this is between JYJ vs SM.
I particularly hate it when HoMin fans disguise themselves as OT5s to include themselves in this situation and degrade JYJ, either outspokenly or subtly, or a transgression between them. That’s just low.
New reader for this website. I…really like it here. LoL It kind of sucks about some of the stuff I’ve been reading on the website about the lawsuit and all the dirt being slung around. I really miss my Dong Bang the way they used to be. I know things can’t last forever but these boys said nothing would ever tear them apart. It really makes me sad to see that it’s happened, though. They were such great friends, more like brothers, with an amazing chemistry having to do with music and friendship. They were just destined to be five.
I love JYJ with all my heart…I love Dong Bang with all my heart. It really hurts to see them torn apart this way. But JYJ deserve to move on. They still have dreams to accomplish and all they ever wanted was to do what they loved and share it with their fans. I’m not really sure how I feel about HoMin right now…especially after reading a few articles on this website. I don’t know any of these boys personally and I don’t want to jump to conclusions if I misunderstood anything here.
JYJ should be able to move on and accomplish their dreams. HoMin should do the same–as much as that leech of a company SM will allow, anyway. If the boys no longer share the same goals or visions between the five of them, they need to be allowed to go their own ways. It’s just really disheartening to see that they can’t do that without so much negativity following them around. 😦
Pls check out jyjtimeline.wordpress.com
did you guys read yahoo’s story about how big corporations and self-employed individuals find loopholes and avoiding paying income tax?
http://custom.yahoo.com/taxes/article-112468-a664918f-23b7-33c4-a769-e3191efe8f39-ge-pay-no-taxes-wsj
This is more like how big corporations can save even more by not paying their employees!
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Let’s pray and hope that the court will take JYJ’s side.
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You could certainly see your enthusiasm in the paintings you write. The arena hopes for more passionate writers such as you who are not afraid to say how they believe. Always go after your heart.
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